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Telling Quote of the Day
Cassandra - I hope all is well with you and yours. I miss the frequent and stimulating posts that had occurred in the past. I hope what follows will stimulate some response.
Oral Roberts University, and its President Richard Roberts, is yet another evangelical organization caught in a scandal. The Rev. Carlton Pearson, a former member of the university’s board of regents and a United Church of Christ minister is quoted as saying, “But we don’t know what our own is anymore. People are asking questions and questioning answers, and we’re not used to it.” How telling, and if such an admission doesn’t get members incensed, nothing will. My response is simply, “Baaaa.”
Jim
on December 18th, 2007 at 4:17 am
Hello there Jim,
I’m wondering if you can help me? As a Christian, I always enjoyed looking at The Atheist Mama’s blog / website, and even managed to contribute from time to time.
I’ve just checked the site, having not done so for a while, and it seems to have gone awfully quiet. Do you know if it’s closed down? has everyone gone away? is something wrong? Or am I just looking in the wrong place?
If you could enlighten me, that would be appreciated.
Many thanks,
Stephen.
on December 22nd, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Stephen:
As the opening of my little piece implies, I was wondering the same things. Cassandra, are you O.K.? What’s up?
JIm
on December 24th, 2007 at 11:40 am
Thanks Jim. I’ve emailed Cassandra on the email address given for her, but haven’t heard back yet. Just wondering if she is okay? (Hope so.) Jim, if you do hear anything, please be kind enough to let me know. I would appreciate that. I’m away for Christmas and New Year, so I may not be able to respond to you straight away, but would be pleased to hear from you, all the same. Thanks again, Stephen.
on December 26th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Not a comment- just a question. Why do people who believe that there is no God spend so much time talking and use so much space writing about Him?
on December 27th, 2007 at 5:24 am
Hi Upward. That’s a reasonable question. At present, though, this particular website / blog is unusually quiet. Does anyone out there know what’s happened? Is Cassandra okay? This used to be full of lively discussion, but it seems to have died. Any ideas, anyone? Cassandra? Thanks, Stephen.
on December 28th, 2007 at 10:23 am
Stephen,
I could not help but notice that you did not answer the “reasonable question.”
I was wondering if it might be a case of the God who does exist won’t let His creatures just willy nilly push Him aside.
You’re right- this is awfully quiet. Maybe some fireworks after the new year!
Just wondering.
Best wishes,
Upward
on December 28th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Upward:
To put it short and sweet, because otherwise theists would occupy all the “air time” and religion has caused so much misery and violence in the world a rational, truthful alternative must be offered. Much could be said to flesh this all out, but IMHP, this is one of the major reasons (and it may not be a “Him’).
Now my turn for a question. Like the play between “Merry Christmas” and “Happy Holidays,” is the ending “Best Wishes” a euphemism for “You are in my prayers”?
Jim
on December 29th, 2007 at 3:44 am
Hi Upward / Hi Jim,
Still no news from Cassandra? No idea what’s happening.
Upward, I didn’t answer your question because I assumed it was directed towards atheists (I wasn’t ignoring it). I’m a Christian, so I wasn’t sure it was for me to answer. (Nothing more sinister than that, honestly!)
Now I’m off home to England for a few days (I’m exiled in Scotland!) so I’ll check this again when I return…
Stephen.
on December 29th, 2007 at 10:04 am
Jim,
You wrote, “is the ending “Best Wishes” a euphemism for “You are in my prayers”? It could be. I don’t remember what I was thinking at the time I wrote it. All I know is that “Best Wishes” is better than “Evil Wishes.” Would “You are in my prayers”? be an OK thing to write on this blog?
It is my opinion that for many A. its a matter of ,”I don’t think there is a god, but just in case….”
I do recall thinking that as I referred to God as “Him” I would be reminded of the Him/Her issue. In fact I almost wrote it “Him/Her”, but my little knowledge of the Bible would not let me do so. When you wrote “(and it may not be a “Him’)” do realize you came close to admitting that God exist?
What comes to your mind when you think of the word “faith”?
Best Wishes to you and Stephen,
Upward
on December 29th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
You may think my question was a near admission that God exists, I see it simply as a question that has implications for faith. There are many far better answers, but when I think of the word “faith,” II think of belief without any rational and/or empirical evidence. I think of it as the difference between “believe” and “know.” And I don’t see it as the same thing as hope.
Best wishes and peace to all,
Jim
on December 29th, 2007 at 6:49 pm
Hi Jim,
Interesting point- the Bible is about faith and belief and yet the word “know” is used more/less 900 times in it. May I quote some of those verses on this blog? And may I write “You are in my prayers”?
Best Wishes for a pleasant Sunday,
upward
on December 31st, 2007 at 2:02 pm
Upward:
I’m not the owner/manager of this website, so I have no authority to say what you or anyone else may or may not write. Personally, as long as one is sincere and honest, I have little problem with what is written, although I may strongly disagree with it.
Since this seems to be a 3 person conversation, Stephen, you, and me, perhaps we should move it to our private e-mail addresses? Mine is:
wanakena@alltel.net
I’d still like to know that Cassandra is O.K. (so I hope).
Jim
on January 1st, 2008 at 10:24 am
Hello all three of you,
I did a review of the dictionary meaning of some words I haven’t looked at recently. Very interesting!
“belief without any rational and/or empirical evidence”- Jim’s words.
(know directly = to be aware of the truth or factuality of , be convinced or certain of, to perceive
believe= to accept the word or evidence of
belief= conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon)
rational= reasonable
Empirical= originating in or based on observation or experience
Experience= knowledge through direct observation or participation
wisdom= accumulated philosophic or scientific learning
evidence= something that furnishes proof.
My question is does that “something” always has to be in terms of numbers or what is seen through a micro- or tele- scope? Well no, because empirical evidence is observational evidence or experiential evidence.
Thus I really like 1 John 4: 16 because it uses both words. “So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us….”
So there are people who both know and believe something. They have reasonable, experiential evidence that God loves them. In fact we all have a lot of things that we both know and believe.
Strongly agree, agree, disagree, or strongly disagree? Why?
Happy new year everyone,
Upward
on January 3rd, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Upward:
You asked what I think, and I responded without reference to any other works, “when I think of the word “faith,” I think of belief without any rational and/or empirical evidence. I think of it as the difference between “believe” and “know.” And I don’t see it as the same thing as hope.” You did what i frequently do when looking into any issue, you went to the dictionary to look up the or a definition of important words. Without operationalizing definitions, coming to some agreement on them, we may still be talking of different things because (a) dictionaries often give more than one meaning for a word, and (b) definitions bring new words into play that require definition. For example, you note that evidence is something that furnishes proof; so what is proof? My dictionary says it has to do with the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance of a truth or fact; something that induces certainty or establishes validity. In the scientific realm, reliability would be added to the concept of validity. This reminds me of a truism I heard long ago, “First, defines your terms, then we’ll argue.”
I am not a believer in scientism. I think, for example, I’d learn as much or more about a wolf from a painting of said beast loping across a frozen tundra in pursuit of a caribou than from a scientific description of the wolf’s muscles and synapses. Different information, but important nonetheless. Still, there are many areas where I expect sound, scientific, rational proof. Quoting the bible won’t cut it with me. It is so contradictory it would receive a failing grade in any class I ever taught, so fanciful that if people believed in other realms the kind of things the bible asks them to believe said people would be considered mentally unstable, and so violent as to be disgusting.
And in the case you cite, I’d want to know exactly what “reasonable, experiential evidence” people have to “know” god loves them, no matter what they believe or what the bible says.
As I said previously, if we are the only 2 or 3 involved in this thread, this will be my last post. I offered my e-mail address before, and I’ll play along for awhile more, but I usually find that such conversations become tedious and repetitive.
Jim
on January 4th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Hi Jim, Hi Cassandra, Hi Stephen, Hi Upward. Hi Atheist Mama,
I like this atheist blog! Some of the people on blogs related to atheism are very harsh individuals- some seem to be mentally unstable. I can imagine that their coworkers probably see them as violent and really disgusting. All the people on this one seem very sane and civil. This is great! I just hope I can fit in. I’m a seeker.
Would some one pleeeaaaase explain something to me. What evidence would an atheist need in order to accept the idea that God exist? Does an atheist need to see God?
I give,
A. Rip
on January 5th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Hi Folks,
Just back from a few days at home in England, with apologies for not being in touch. I’m happy to give my personal (home) email address for the purposes of debate. It’s shjan@tiscali.co.uk
I must, though, include the disclaimer that I back off (permanently) whenever the debate gets hostile or personal. I’ve been involved in this sort of debate previously, and I’ve truly hated the hostility which emanated from both sides, atheist and believer.
Having said that, I’m very happy, as a practising Christian, to join in robust debate. Please feel free to be in touch at shjan@tiscali.co.uk
To get the ball rolling, has anyone seen a book by John Humphrys (he’s a BBC journalist) entitled, ‘In God we Doubt’ ? It was one of my Christmas presents, and is an excellent read. I recommend it to you all.
Many thanks. Happy New Year to one and all ~ Stephen. (PS. Any news on the elusive Cassandra?)
on January 5th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
I’m also interested to know if anyone has seen or read (or considered reading) ‘The Dawkins Delusion’ by Alister McGrath ? Stephen.
on January 11th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Hello one and all,
Perhaps this blog can experience a resurrection.
Back on 1/3/08 Jim asked a very worthy question, ‘what “reasonable, experiential evidence” people have to “know” god loves them, no matter what they believe or what the bible says”? It seems evident that he was asking, “How can a person know that God loves them? What “reasonable, experiential evidence” do they have that leads them to this conclusion? That question is so good and it deserves a response.
How do I Know that God Loves Me
Let’s say that a young woman named Jane gets a letter from a stranger. In the letter are the three little words, “I love you”. The letter is signed by an individual named Gad. Some questions come to Jane’s mind. She wonders if there is such a being by that name. She mentions the letter to a trusted friend and the friend assures Jane that Gad really does exist. In fact the friend actually knows Gad quite well. Jane also wonders if Gad has ever done any thing to indicate that indeed Gad really does love her. Upon investigation she determines that Gad has said some very nice things about her to his associates. And to her very great surprise she is told that Gad has bought her a new car for the birthday that she will soon have. That is evidence enough to lead Jane to be assured of Gad’s love for her.
Of course by now Jane is very excited and wants to meet Gad, spend time with him and really get to know him. This all happens. Jane and Gad are soon married and they live happily ever after.
I certainly don’t want to trivialize things and please don’t take my little parable too far.
This is the way I see it– Early in our lives most of us hear about a Being called God. At some time or other we wonder if God really does exist. Many of us look around and see that which makes belief in God reasonable. We read that scientific evidence confirms that the universe had a beginning. Some figure that since there is a beginning there must be a “beginner”(cause and effect which we see all around us). This and a number of other things cause me to believe that there is a Being that calls Himself God. It does not take much faith to believe that.
Then I might wonder if God has done any thing to prove that He loves me. I learn that He came to earth and died for my sins- that He took my punishment. (There is extra-biblical evidence for the crucifixion). Furthermore I learn that He did not stay dead, but there was His resurrection (more extra-biblical evidence). In addition to all that I also read in the Bible, “It is not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as a sacrifice to take away our sins.” 1 John 4: 10. It all adds up and points to the same conclusion- God loves me! It doesn’t take much faith on my part. (Let me hasten to say that I am not better than anyone else. He did these things for me because He loves me along with all others.)
Thus I have stated the reason that I am sure (as certain about all this as I can be about anything) that God loves me!
By the way, I know that some faith is a requirement because I read in Heb. 11: 6 “And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.”
Stephen, Jim, A. Rip what do you guys think?
Best wishes,
upward
on January 29th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
The Church is often contradictory and sinful and worldly for the very reason that the World is a fallen place, and Christians live in it also..
As a Christian, I know this all too well. I am far from perfect. I sin less, but not sinless. Salvation is not perfection but the process and the confidence of new starts and security of God’s Grace.
The Church and her offsprings whether evangelical or monastic are not perfect–they are the repositories of those who suffer as well as sin. They are not the holding tanks for the saints only. If by that term you mean perfection.
Nothing more was claimed in Scripture, but that Paul and Christ admonish us to be not of the world though we’re in it.
Thus nothing more is to be expected.
Many thanks, A.M.
–SWT
on April 17th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Hi All!
As a lurker here I was disappointed to see the discussion moved to your private email addresses - what is the point of a blog after all?!
Has anyone heard yet what is going on with Cassandra or this website? I miss it! :(
on April 30th, 2008 at 4:54 am
Hi there - everyone.
Any news on Cassandra?
Any news on the Atheist Mama?
I’ve tried asking around on other atheist websites, but no replies.
Any updates?
Many thanks.
on May 6th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Hello, Stephen,
I think I’m in the dark as much as you. I’ve tried to contact Cassandra, but haven’t had any reply. I’m only a guest contributor here, and without any real oversight by Cassandra or anyone else, I didn’t feel comfortable with continuing to post. I’ve also been toying with the idea of starting my own blog.
I’m really at a loss as to what to do next. I suppose I could keep posting while this site is still up and running, or at least until I launch my new blog. It’s up to you, the readers, so let me know!
on May 9th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Allen,
Do it!
You’re the man!
on May 22nd, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Maybe Cassandra is no longer an atheist! Until we have more more info I’m going to assume that.
What do you guys think?
on May 27th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Hey Gang,
Go to home page for the resurrected blogggg.
on June 2nd, 2008 at 6:24 am
Upward,
My guess is that if Cassandra is no longer an atheist, then she would have to integrity to make that known.
I think she may be ill (hope not), or that she might simply have given up (the blog, if not atheism).
Who knows? I just hope she is okay.
Stephen