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Serving Up Maggots as an Appetizer for Atheism
If you serve up maggots anywhere during a conversation, like during a meal, it’ll be all your guests remember later.
I recently started a temporary day job as an instructional designer. On my first day, I was granted a cubicle. As someone who has spent most of her life self-employed or, for a short while, in an office*, a cubicle is a novel experience indeed.
I’m still learning the rules of cubicle life. I’ve already learned that whenever anyone in an adjacent cubicle begins a conversation, it’s commonly understood that everyone in the vicinity must drop everything he or she is doing to eavesdrop. It’s also my understanding that it is proper to later pretend that these conversations were completely inaudible to all but the intended parties. Through our mutual pretending, we maintain the illusion that we all have “real� offices and “real� privacy.
Apparently, this tenet of cubicle etiquette doesn’t always apply.
A few days ago, I was sitting in my cubicle, merrily designing instruction**, when I heard the Ira Glass-esque voice of a coworker sitting in a neighboring cubicle drawl, “you know Kelly***, there is no afterlife.� At this, my ears perked up. While I personally might try to not introduce rationalism with death, I’m always interested identifying fellow rationalists. He sounded like a good candidate. “There is no heaven, no hell, no god,� Ira-sound-alike continued. A fellow atheist too! I continued to listen, not even pretending to type anymore. “When you die, your body will rot and be eaten by maggots. Life really has no point.� Oh, I thought. He’s a maggot guy.
The conversation continued, intermixed with a lesson in Adobe Illustrator. I was less interested in listening at this point. I’m a realist. I’m okay with the fact that, were I to be buried****, my body would indeed decay, possibly with the assistance of some friendly maggots. However, I’m not so into unnecessarily dwelling on the gruesome. “Hi! I’m an atheist! Want some maggots?� is possibly not the best pick-up line ever invented.
Later that afternoon, Kelly wandered over to my cubicle and grumbled, “Oh, I’m just having a great day—Ira told me I’m going to be eaten by maggots and that there isn’t any point to life. Did you hear?� Apparently, this was a case when I was supposed to ignore cubicle tenet number two and acknowledge that I had, indeed, been eavesdropping. I nodded. “My mother raised me as a Catholic,� Kelly continued, “she’d just be so upset to hear something like that.� I nodded again. “Why would he believe something like that?� she asked.
I took a deep breath as I prepared to out myself. “Well, actually, I’m also an atheist. However, I think Ira’s being a bit of a nihilist.� I explained how the lack of an afterlife just makes life sweeter—since we only get to try once, we should do as much with our lives as possible. I explained that, while I didn’t believe there was a prescribed “meaning� of life, we make our own meaning through social compacts and personal values. “Oh,� Kelly said, blinking a few times as she absorbed this. Then she smiled, “That’s really so much nicer. I’m so glad I met you, Amanda,� and wandered off singing***** a random show-tune I’d never heard before.
Really, I don’t know the background or circumstances of Ira and Kelly’s conversation and could be grossly misrepresenting them both. Such is the danger of blogging about those you’ve only known for three days. However, either way, I shall make a suggestion for introducing atheism to others: good conversations, like good recipes, call for absolutely no maggots.
Cross posted at Irreverent Musings.
* with REAL walls!
** after all, that is what we instructional designers design
*** not her real name
**** I don’t plan on it—I might as well donate it to science and let someone get some use out of it.
**** this is not an exaggeration for literary purposes—she really does sing while wandering around the office. It’s her thing.
on April 24th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
[…] Amanda, the Atheist Mama tells a story of a day at work and an overheard conversation. “Ira,” an atheist, was telling “Kelly” about how there was no afterlife. He added this: “When you die, your body will rot and be eaten by maggots. Life really has no point.” […]
on April 24th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
I have to agree with you, it really wasn’t the best thing to say out of the blue like that. I think it’s important to be tactful about that kind of thing.
on April 25th, 2007 at 11:51 am
Shame how many people seem so afraid to live in the here and now so they can have an eternity doing something they probably would find boring in the extreme. I keep thinking of Parke Godwin’s ‘Club Banale”
on April 25th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
anti-nonsense,
Exactly. Not only is it easier on other people’s minds and egos to be tactful, it also tends to get your point across a bit more effectively. And, regardless what some people might think, you can be simultaniously tactful and honest in most situations.
Sarge,
Indeed. As someone who is rather addicted to challenge, I think I would become awwwwwfully bored with the entire “supreme happiness” thing. Not to mention that I’m certainly not coordinated enough to play a harp. (looks woefully down at her hands and shakes her head). Oh well.
on April 25th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Amanda, I am, in fact, a harpist, and you might be surprised what you can do with a lap harp! I’m sixty now, started when I was forty seven.
In my younger days I trained horses and my first year in the army I was in the engine room of a sea going tug. My parents and others who know me proffered advice that I reacquaint myself with stoking tools and pitch forks as I was unlikely to be around harps after I die.
Last year I played in a hospital, my youngest son drove me, and a lady who had been in and out of consciousness actually came to (not because of me) and asked if she was with the angels. Her daughter who was at her bedside, said no, just a guy playing a harp. They asked if I could come into the room and and play a couple of numbers, I did, and the lady said she thought I was an angel. My son laughed so hard that he fell off his chair.
on April 27th, 2007 at 9:52 am
As a Christian looking in on this fascinating conversation which has moved with impressive and amusing dexterity from maggots to harpists, I would like to pose one innocent little question; does anyone know why harps, and the playing thereof, are always associated with thoughts of Heaven? Whether or not one believes in the afterlife (and I realise I’m in the minority here, in that I do), harps seem to have very little to do with anything (except music, obviously). I’ve searched the Bible for references, but to no avail…Comments, please! Thank you.
on April 27th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
Stephen, I play many instruments, two with biblical association: the harp and psaltry, (hammer dulcimer). The accoustical makeup of the harp seems to have an effect on people, I don’t know why. You might check a website which deals with the Healing Harps program.
It’s ‘anecdotal’, sure, but I play for hospice programs and in wards where there are people suffering from dementia. The nurses tell me that after I’ve played about an hour it has about the same calmative effect as medication for about three hours after I’ve gone. I wouldn’t know, seems like bedlam when I go in and leave sometimes, but they see a big difference in behavior.. I’ve played a replica of of an Egyptian harp, like the ones seen depicted on tomb walls, and a replica of a Sumerian type, as one who has perfect pitch and a good ear for other things, there is something different about the way they sound.
When I was much younger than now, I took leave and took a trip through England, I went with a friend who was in the British army. We stopped in one little town, went to the pub for dinner, and they had a type of local cheese that was considered a delecacy. Most of the locals very seldom got to eat it. Figured what the hey’ I’d try some. It was a soft cheese, served in what looked like champagne bucket. I looked at the goo in the bottom, and the goo was squirming…and appaerntly looking back! There was fauna in there, maggots to be exact. I commented on this, the barkeep expressed horror, and ladled in some hot wine. They stopped moving. My friend gave me that “whatcha gonna do NOW” look, so I ordered a loaf of bread and invited everyone to dig in.
Sometimes whan you offer maggots, people are glad to get them.
on April 28th, 2007 at 8:43 am
Stephen,
Good question. I’ve found a couple of quotes about harps, but none that seem to deal with the afterlife and harps. I did find a verse relating to Sarge’s mention of harps and dementia (well, evil spirits in the case):
“And Saul’s servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.”
1 Samuel 16:15-16
I’ve also read that the hammer dulcimer is supposed to reflect the drone of angels. I’m not sure why or by whom it was decided that angels drone…
So Sarge… did they eat the cheese? I’m not squeamish about most things, but I can’t seem to convince myself that eating maggots is fun… even when served up with cheese (I am rather fond of cheese).
~ Amanda
on April 28th, 2007 at 8:49 am
Sarge— are you a member of MAAF (Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers—- www.maaf.info).
on April 28th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
Hi, Sarge and Amanda,
Thank you both for taking the time to respond to my enquiry. Sadly, I’m not a musician (sadly for me, I mean, not for the rest of the world), but even I can take on board the soothing remedies of harpistry. I appreciate your advice, but I’m still not much further forward in understanding the common assumption that Heaven is a place for the playing of harps (as pleasant as that no doubt is) and not much else. Thanks, though.
With regard to maggots and cheese, I should perhaps declare that I am an Englishman currently living in Scotland (Glasgow). My exile, though, does not preclude me from believing (with no difficulty at all) the story of maggots and cheese in a pub. Forasmuch as we English try to deny such things, we are much more like the French than we care to admit, not least in our love of cheese, even cheese which is looked upon with disgust by people from across the globe.
That, however, was not the point of me writing, so I must stick to my original question and ask again; does anyone out there know why harps should be associated with Heaven?
My thanks again ~ Stephen.
on April 28th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Maggots are definitely not the best way to introduce the whole “there is no heaven or hell” concept. At least not in that case. My oldest would probably have a field day discussing the various things that break down the corse in order to reuse it. We’re in the “gross is cool” stage.
on April 28th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Could it be that there is an affliction share by believers and some non-believers? I have observed instances that suggest so. The affliction is simply entertaining the notion that humans are somehow horribly wrong. Nasty, derelict, unreliable and irredeemable. I have observed that such tendencies are generally detectable in basic human behavior and further observed that nearly no one is demonstrably so to the exclusion of any redeeming qualities.
On occasion I wonder why there is such incredulity when something bad happens. As if a jillion good things didn’t happen that same day?
See Asimov, circa 1955, “The Abnormality of Being Normal”.
on April 28th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
Amanda, I am not a member of the MIAAF, I am a member of DAV, the American Harp Society, Civil Air Patrol, our local community band (French Horn), a Russian Music Society ( we do other slavic as well), a Mariachi band, and I am a member of a very unique civil war reenacting group. If you want to see the harp I play the site includes 46paband@geocities. I am the sergeant major and director. Not a lot left on my plate for other memberships, though I will consider it. Thank you.
Stephen, my family is Welsh, Irish and yes, Scottish. My mother is a geneologist and she found that our Scottish roots are firmly in the “Debateable Land” and we are in fact descendents of Kinmont Willie and Black Johnny Armstrong. I hadn’t thought of it, but the harp was probably about the best sounding instrument around, capable of harmony or at least counter melody with itself. It was also an instrument used in the courts of the higher ups, so it would have had the trappings of nobility associated with it.
Stephen, Amanda, if you are interested in a fairly simple but really neat instrument I suggest the Mountain or as it’s also known, the Appalachian dulcimer. This is the only American designed instrument, and it was made FOR people who knew nothing about music BY people who knew nothing about music,. They’re a lot of fun, I know they have them in Great Britain, so check one out.
Crude, I’ve been all over the world, done all sorts of things, and I have found that most people are rather decent, one on one. To be sure, there are many tractor treaded, nickel plated, supercharged doofuses with knobs on, but very few people, on their own wish you ill. The problem is they stand aside and allow ill to happen, the minority to act out. They say, “Yes, but.” I am an atheist, my wife, a practicing Methodist, was my first date, we’ve known each other forty two years, We’ve been married thirty nine of them. It is true that more theists have done me personal dirt than atheists, but maybe that’s because I know fewer atheists. A preacher where my wife goes was a very intollerant on non theists, told me I had no right to not believe. I was breifly associated with an atheist group that was the mirror image of this man. Can’t use either in my business. Actually old Henry VIII said it best in his song, Pastyme with goode companie.
on April 28th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
PS Yes, they did eat the cheese. I tried some, too, and it really wasn’t too bad. But sharing helped me out of a tight spot.
on April 29th, 2007 at 10:31 am
Hi Sarge,
Thanks for your responses.
My own paternal geneology is largely French, although I was born in England. My maternal line hails from Spanish & Portugese pirates (I’m not kidding!), some of whom gave up on piracy in order to marry English girls from the Sussex coast (facing the English channel), whence my mother. And here I am, all these years later, in Scotland!
Regarding music, and an instrument to play, thanks for the encouragement to do so, but I’ve arrived at the conclusion that the world is probably a nicer place to inhabit all the time I stay off learning to make noises other than those I’m already stuck with. I really don’t dislike anyone enough to inflict my attempts at music-making upon them ~ thanks all the same. Stephen.
on April 30th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
You’ve been nominated for a Thinking Blogger Award!
on May 3rd, 2007 at 11:17 am
“I explained how the lack of an afterlife just makes life sweeter”
Yeah, but that wouldn’t be a fact. It’s just something you superimposed over your life. If life has no inherent meaning then one can give it whatever meaning they wish. No one is more right or wrong than anyone else, Ira’s nihilistic interpretation is on par with yours. Why does your “life’s sweeter” interpretation carry anymore weight than Ira’s?
on May 5th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Gatsby,
Sure, it’s not a fact and I suppose I could have placed a “my” or two in that sentence.
However, I’m also pretty sure that I never said my interpretation of the purpose or purposeless was correct while Ira’s was incorrect. What I did say, is that a conversation that puts forward “ways to find positive meaning” rather than “ways in which your body will be eaten by maggots” is certainly likely to go over better as an initial introduction to atheism. If you’ve had a great deal of success introducing theists to atheism using lines involving maggots, please share. However, in my encounters, I’ve found that being nice, smiley, and palatable goes a lot farther.
on May 31st, 2007 at 9:57 am
As stories go, I could work it out that the time was practiced on moments of frustration of talents which did not exist.
I shall correct the art imitating life only in other Life which I can seize. But why does an atheist have feel that that the belief be involved in that Life for its existence (like once I said it does it really had to for the purpose of rejecting OR accepting mystery)?
on June 9th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
Hi Amanda,
If life has no meaning and we can superimpose any meaning over it - why condemn the theists with the meaning that they superimposed?
You claimed that your view was not a fact. It was no more right or wrong than Ira’s, because it’s your own convention - you made your view up (or adopted it from someone else) then placed that view/interpretation over your life.
Why can’t the theist do the same? You put that interpretation over your life not because it’s true, but for your own personal reasons (it makes life seem alittle better, maybe easier, happier…whatever).
If there is no meaning or purpose inherent to the universe, why not be just as happy with the theist who found her own personal meaning to superimpose over life? Why feel the need to introduce them to your view of atheism (life being sweeter)?
You stated that your view is not really a fact but a personal convention, you believe or think the universe has no meaning or purpose written into it, then why care about the view that Sally the theist has regarding the meaning of her life?
on July 14th, 2007 at 8:07 am
“Hi! I’m an atheist! Want some maggots?� is possibly not the best pick-up line ever invented.
Well now! THAT explains a lot. Thanks for the tip! :-)
Very enjoyably related, Amanda.
on August 6th, 2007 at 8:30 am
It’s all about the Possibility. However, it is atheists who would reject the possibility of humans enjoying Maggots as their staple diet the most. I think they like to understand that the world cannot be rigorous without anxiety being different evey time of emotional customs like “the Will to Power”.
Amanda; is she for real, or a Faggot?
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