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Is Thinking There Is a God Comforting?
Today I had my dog out for a walk in my few wooded acres. After awhile I sat on a log while he stuck his bloodhoundish nose into everything and anything. I basked in the sunlight and 60+ weather (about 20 degrees above the average for this date), with beauty all around me. I got to thinking about how marvelous the day was and how wonderful this little tract of land. Then I wondered, would it be more comforting if I believed this day was a gift from a loving god rather than a chance happening, and I decided it probably would be. I remain an agnostic/atheist (so I’m weaseling), but knowing someone cared enough to send the very best has a certain appeal. Now I wonder, am I alone in such sentiments for a “non-believer?” For the record, I come out of a nominal Christian family background, so maybe its a residual effect. Plus, its getting near Christmas and its such a wonderful, warm, and comforting story and time of year!
Your comments would be appreciated.
Jim
on November 27th, 2006 at 11:29 pm
No, Jim, you aren’t alone. I think it takes a strong person to be an atheist for just that reason. I think the same is true of approaching death. I would love to believe there is something after death, but I have no evidence to convince me of that and I refuse to hang on to ideas that are false, no matter how comforting. But I understand the draw as much as any other normal and sometimes afraid human does.
on November 28th, 2006 at 11:33 am
You’re not alone at all. I was raised a deeply evangelical and devout Fundie, so maybe I’m suffering from the same residual effects you describe. When I finally realized how absurd the whole god thing was, I spent a long time missing the ability to simply “thank� someone for all the good stuff I had in my life. Coming to grips with the fact that life is just life, and the world really exists in reality is one of the tougher aspects of de-converting, but it just makes the rewards that much sweeter. You get to appreciate the world for what it really is. You can concentrate on thanking the real people who contribute to the good things in your life. You make sure you treat people right the first time around because you can’t go back and ask forgiveness from an imaginary god. You get to see the world for what it is. I would never trade that for illusionary comfort.
on November 28th, 2006 at 4:58 pm
Keep in mind, when we experience a wonderful day wherever we are, there are other places having horribly nasty weather. It was sunshining by me the day people were losing their homes and lives in Hurricane Katrina. That is just one example of what keeps me from even toying with the possibility of the existence of god. I don’t believe there would be a god favoring certain individuals in one place, and allowing others to suffer and perish in another place. Nothing magical controls weather, it is all pure chance.
After being an atheist now for a couple of decades (after being a xian for more than three decades) I don’t even ponder “what if”. Mother Nature is what it is…and is not a gift merely for human enjoyment…nature just is. We enjoy it when it is good, and bitch about it when it is not.
on November 28th, 2006 at 5:32 pm
I wonder, if you go to that same spot when it’s 10 below zero, howling wind, and blinding snow, do you think “I wonder why some supreme being is pissed at me today?” Agree with stardust. Nature is nature. Your location at any given time determines your enjoyment of it’s beauty or sinster nature.
on November 29th, 2006 at 11:28 pm
You’re right daj. Contrast can be most revealing.
Sometimes, when I think of an act of generosity directed to me I get all gummy and warm inside knowing that another person would do such a thing without prospect of reward. One time someone slipped two quarters into my hand while I slept on a bench in Washington Square Park in NYC. That 50 cents bought me breakfast. (1969; breakfast was cheap)
When I appreciate an act of human kindness, some mediocre kindness, I am flushed with the gummy feeling. Then, like last Thursday, when there was the most improbable neon pink penciled low across a sunset horizon, I feel like I have seen something so special that it must have been intended for me. Until I think of all the sunsets I have not seen. And all the quarters I didn’t get while sleeping publicly. Our perception of events is only the germ of appreciation, particularly when those events are the effect of outside (of ourselves) causes.
Death in the morning
Rebirth at night
Eat your life slowly
Every bite
on November 30th, 2006 at 3:34 am
I’m a “natural” atheist. Never had a god-bone in my body. I can honestly say that I never, ever attribute anything to the possibility that there might be a god and I never, ever get any type of warm fuzzy feeling imagining that there might be a god. I have plenty of breathtakingly awesome moments in my life and I enjoy them immensely. I attribute them all to natural causes.
on November 30th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
Thanks to all for your comments. Momsquared and Butch, I appreciate the warmth of your responses. I think that what you imply is that before rational thought, many of us have learned, emotional responses, with rational thought following later. I welcome such emotions. Stardust, I recognize the “neutrality” and even amorality of nature, but I still stand in awe of the 13 billion years experiment we are the current end result of. Daj, to me “sinister” implies a rational thought process on the part of nature, something I don’t believe either of us believe in. Further, I have been at the same and other spots when the temperature was below zero, the wind was howling, and the snow was deep all around, and still wondered at the beauty of it (I lived and worked in the Adirondacks for 19 years). Probably has to dowith perceptions as discussed below. Crudely (if I may be so informal—and note that I didn’t say “Crud”!), I don’t think life would be worth living if my perception didn’tbring me the germ of appreciation, even knowing that there are sunsets I haven’t seen and tsunamis I haven’t experienced. Bruce, as a “natural” atheist (an expression I haven’t run across before), I suspect you are the exception as to how most of arrived at our atheism.
I have spent the last 25 years of my professional forestry career urging my colleagues to stop speaking so much science and dollars to the public (we once were the guys in white hats, now that cutting trees is seen a bad, even as sin by some, we’re the villains). The point I try to make is that we (humans) learn best through stories that involve emotion. I’d say that 99+% of the foresters I’ve asked (thousands of them) went into forestry because they LOVE the forest. Yet, they seem afraid to express that love, making the mistake of thinking emotion is the opposite of rationalism. One can be both rational and emotional (passionate if you prefer). Reading a novel the other night I came across as statement (paraphrased below) that reminded me the same problem is probably extent in the religion/atheism debate. The author said something to the effect that if we think that we will change humanity though rationality we’re wrong. Let’s share those “breathtakingly awesome moments” with all!
JIm
on November 30th, 2006 at 11:34 pm
Your question may be answered like this: Yes, but for some people. For billions of human beings, gods represent a meaning to their lives. For those billions, divinities provide psychological support in difficult times and someone to thank for the moments of joy. Many atheists, have had to learn to live without the supernatural comforter. In my personal opinion, it is more comforting to know that there is a rationale behind different phenomena. The idea of a deity playing around with the laws of nature brings me distress.
on December 1st, 2006 at 11:37 pm
I find it to be a sign of mental illness. The more chaotic your life and mental processes are, the more likely you are to respond to an authoritarian figure, someone seemingly omnipotent who gives you strict rules to live by, similar to how studies found that the “crazier” a person is, the more likely they are to support dictatorial leaders like Bush.
on December 10th, 2006 at 5:42 pm
I would answer that question with another one: Is Thinking There Is NOT Is More Comforting?
It’s Humans who needs religions & not God.
If you would visit my blog, I think you would find some of my views on that. Your comments is appreciated.
on December 16th, 2006 at 12:01 am
“I’d say that 99+% of the foresters I’ve asked (thousands of them) went into forestry because they LOVE the forest. Yet, they seem afraid to express that love, making the mistake of thinking emotion is the opposite of rationalism. One can be both rational and emotional (passionate if you prefer).”
Jim, I agree that emotions can be very strong when you’re in the forest. There is no place on the planet I feel more at home and more in touch with my evolutionary past than when I am on a hike through a wooded area away from man-made objects and any hint of religious belief. A couple of years back I had a realization of my connectedness with all the elements of the planet that gave us birth. It was the most warm, comforting and cozy feeling I’ve ever known. It was much more comforting than any of the feelings I experienced while growing up in a religious family where thoughts were focused on some paradise that was to exist in the future, and sin had touched everything here. I had thought that I could never feel truly at home here–and religion really does try to separate us from our heritage–but I was so wrong. I am at home. Completely and totally. There’s nothing irrational about that.
on December 17th, 2006 at 9:23 pm
Lynda:
I still have connections at a major college of forestry. It’s never too late!!!
Jim
on December 18th, 2006 at 6:02 pm
Merry Christmas, may the love and peace of the Lord fill you this Advent season.
on December 20th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
I’m sure you grasp that while you were enjoying your admittedly lovely moment, millions were suffering in almost infinite ways. Were they not just as deserving of a pretend god’s munificence? I think someone else pointed this out in the comments in a similar way. What I don’t get is WHY it might be more “comforting” to consider the circumstances a “gift.”
on December 29th, 2006 at 1:55 pm
Jim,
I hope you had a peaceful Christmas. I believe all good things come from the God of the Bible. In Nahum 1:7, scripture says, “The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knows them that trust in him.” The Christmas story is “wonderful”, “warm”, and “comforting” in that God gives us the good news of the gospel. It was His goodness that provided Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. You seem to be open to spiritual things and I would be interested in knowing more about your Christian background. I hope you will respond.
Prayerfully,
Rod
on December 29th, 2006 at 3:19 pm
Rod:
I did have a very peaceful and happy Christmas, thank you.
I grew up in a “Christian home” where both parents expressed a belief in God but had been turned off by organized religion. Through dear friends I accepted the Roman Catholic church and was a believer and church goer for 50+ years. However, I was always a bit of a rebel and my wife and I honestly think we “drove” one very conservative priest from our parish over 30 years ago (not the place we live now).
The more I observed the Catholic Church, then all of Christendom, then Islam and Judaism, then other of the world’s great religions, I came to realize (1) they were a force for violence and tyrany, and (2) they made no rational sense. The violence of the Bible, its many contradictions, the scholarship on its authors and origins, etc. all convinced me that it is the greatest story ever sold by those out to keep mind control and money control of the masses. The other holy books are no better, maybe even worse. I am an avid reader of all of these issues. Ultimitely I became an agnostic, then one with a leaning towards atheism. By defintion, I supose I am a “weak atheist.”
At the same time, the pure, unadulterated message of Jesus may yet be of the greatest value, once stripped of all the accumulated trappings (see Thomas Jefferson and John Adams). But I do not have to believe in Jesus’ divinity to see value in his message.
The spiritual things I believe in do not rise from the supernatural but from the awe and wonder of life and our world.
Hope this helps, and that it does not appear insulting. I don’t mean it to be, but you asked.
Peace,
Jim
on December 30th, 2006 at 8:55 pm
Jim:
Thank you for sharing your Christian background with me. Your comments were not taken as insulting.
I replied to your question to see if you would be open to a peaceful, non-argumentative discussion regarding Christianity. I am interested in only reasoning together and sharing ideas.
I have never shared my faith with some one who is agnostic/atheistic. Please consider this invitation and I respect your decision.
If you agree, I am open to giving you my email address or discussing my position in this forum.
I will leave you with this….
One day you are walking through your acreage and you see a painting hanging on a tree. How do you know there was a painter who created the painting? The painting is the evidence that the painter exists. You can’t see, touch, smell, hear or taste him, but you know he exists because the painting exists. The same is true when looking at a building (building/builder).
I come to the knowledge of the Creator because creation is the evidence. I can’t help but look in awe and wonder at God’s beutiful gifts to us in the stars, sun, clouds, wind, beautiful sunsets, trees, grass, rocks, flowers, bees, dogs, cats, humans, etc. For me, creation is the evidence of intelligent design.
Peace,
Rod
on December 31st, 2006 at 12:00 pm
Rod:
I’d be happy to engage in dialogue that emphasizes sharing our viewpoints/conclusions openly but without the thought of converting anyone. I’m really not sure whether this forum or a private dialogue would be best, but my e-mail addreess is wanakena@alltel.net, so I’ll watch both venues.
Your story of the painter and creation is as nice a way of putting the idea as I have encountered. Nonetheless, like so much of the ever popular C.S. Lewis, it is arguement by analogy, which, while very useful, is also relatively weak; it is not “evidence.” However put, the creation being evidence of a creator is standard fare, so I’ll finish for now by asking the standard response. Who created the creator?
Shalom,
Jim
on January 1st, 2007 at 6:20 pm
I agree that it WOULD be nice if there was a God who thoughtfully provided us with beautiful days. Of course, if this were so, He’d need to explain all the evil he allows (or perhaps even created) in the world.
I also would love to believe that Christians do good deeds because they care about other human beings, rather than to please God and get a good spot in heaven.
Thoughtfulness and empathy—with or without a religious context—is something special and inherently good.
on January 18th, 2007 at 4:06 am
i think it feels better knowing something good can exist without any “help” or prodding (assuming the capricious one shows up).
on May 8th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Truth be told, I find more beauty in the inner workings of the universe happening by chance, having God be the creator of it all would be kind of like breast implants as opposed to naturals. It just doesn’t feel the same.
on October 29th, 2008 at 10:09 am
Rod’s painter/painting analogy is just the classic “watchmaker” argument in another form. If you were on a desert island and came across a watch lying in the sand, would you be apt to believe it was created by an intelligent being for a specific purpose, or that it was created by the waves and the wind? Like a watch, a human eye is a complicated object which is well-suited to a specific purpose. So it must have been engineered by some divine “creator,” right?
Wrong. The process of natural selection easily explains, in scientific terms, how eyes and other marvelously intricate and well-suited devices have evolved over millions of years. As for how it all began, well that is the big mystery, but if everything was created by God, then who created God??