Comments on: An Inside Look at the Dover Intelligent Design Case and What it Means for Ohio http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html An atheist woman, mother, wife, Ohioan and American citizen blogs. Thu, 17 May 2012 16:13:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.3 by: Cassandra http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-206 Tue, 14 Feb 2006 20:31:47 +0000 http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-206 Dan said: <i>I'd go so far as to compare it to going to a Christian church and being expected to don a crucifix as a sign of "respect" for the hosts.</i> Now <i>this</i> is a very good point. There is no way that I would agree to genuflect upon entering a pew at a Catholic church (I'm not sure which religions require this, but I know that the Catholic church does). Great point Dan, thanks for another point of view!! Dan said: <i>Not doing so, but then insisting that shoes be removed, can easily create a very uncomfortable situation....</i> This reminds me of a party that my mother went to a few years ago. The hosts required the shoes be taken off at the door, and no one knew or expected it. There were men in suits with holes in their socks, there were women wearing knee-hi's with runs, there were people wearing funky colored socks... Talk about an uncomfortable situation!! Dan said:
I’d go so far as to compare it to going to a Christian church and being expected to don a crucifix as a sign of “respect” for the hosts.

Now this is a very good point. There is no way that I would agree to genuflect upon entering a pew at a Catholic church (I’m not sure which religions require this, but I know that the Catholic church does).

Great point Dan, thanks for another point of view!!

Dan said:
Not doing so, but then insisting that shoes be removed, can easily create a very uncomfortable situation….

This reminds me of a party that my mother went to a few years ago. The hosts required the shoes be taken off at the door, and no one knew or expected it. There were men in suits with holes in their socks, there were women wearing knee-hi’s with runs, there were people wearing funky colored socks… Talk about an uncomfortable situation!!

]]> by: Dan http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-205 Tue, 14 Feb 2006 20:28:48 +0000 http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-205 What especially bothers me in this case is that the event was billed as a public meeting on a public issue. I always assume that such meetings are held in a neutral place, even if that place may be used for religious services at other times. Since I can no longer make this assumption, I'll now have to think twice before going to any public meeting. I certainly will not be going to any such meetings scheduled for a synogogue. What especially bothers me in this case is that the event was billed as a public meeting on a public issue. I always assume that such meetings are held in a neutral place, even if that place may be used for religious services at other times. Since I can no longer make this assumption, I’ll now have to think twice before going to any public meeting. I certainly will not be going to any such meetings scheduled for a synogogue.

]]> by: Dan http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-204 Tue, 14 Feb 2006 20:22:38 +0000 http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-204 Being asked to take your shoes off is a bit different since there can be good, empirical reasons behind the request. Maybe the hosts fear carpet damage. Maybe they have a child who's allergic to yard pesticides. If it's important enough to insist on, however, it's important enough to let people know about ahead of time so they're prepared. Not doing so, but then insisting that shoes be removed, can easily create a very uncomfortable situation.... Being asked to take your shoes off is a bit different since there can be good, empirical reasons behind the request. Maybe the hosts fear carpet damage. Maybe they have a child who’s allergic to yard pesticides. If it’s important enough to insist on, however, it’s important enough to let people know about ahead of time so they’re prepared. Not doing so, but then insisting that shoes be removed, can easily create a very uncomfortable situation….

]]> by: Dan http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-203 Tue, 14 Feb 2006 20:13:06 +0000 http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-203 Thanks for the additional information. I discussed the yamika issue with my Significant Other and we both agree that it would have been a Very Bad Thing had we shown up and been blindsided by this issue. I'd go so far as to compare it to going to a Christian church and being expected to don a crucifix as a sign of "respect" for the hosts. My refusal to do so is not a sign of disrespect; imposing one's rituals on one's guests, on the other hand, seems *very* disrespectful to me. Thanks for the additional information.

I discussed the yamika issue with my Significant Other and we both agree that it would have been a Very Bad Thing had we shown up and been blindsided by this issue. I’d go so far as to compare it to going to a Christian church and being expected to don a crucifix as a sign of “respect” for the hosts. My refusal to do so is not a sign of disrespect; imposing one’s rituals on one’s guests, on the other hand, seems *very* disrespectful to me.

]]> by: Cassandra http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-202 Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:58:34 +0000 http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-202 Thanks for coming by, and your comments RBH! I'm glad that you have a recording of the presentations! It's great to have different perspectives. Of course, I'm not a scientist or an educator. Hell, I didn't even go to college. But I am an American, and I'm a mother and I care about our Constitutional rights. I think that I represent a large number of people out there. About the yamika - of course, I didn't have to form an opinion on it, but it did make me think a bit when I saw the man in front of me refuse to wear it. I guess I just kind of saw it like taking off my shoes before going into someones house. Thanks for coming by, and your comments RBH! I’m glad that you have a recording of the presentations!
It’s great to have different perspectives. Of course, I’m not a scientist or an educator. Hell, I didn’t even go to college. But I am an American, and I’m a mother and I care about our Constitutional rights. I think that I represent a large number of people out there.

About the yamika - of course, I didn’t have to form an opinion on it, but it did make me think a bit when I saw the man in front of me refuse to wear it.
I guess I just kind of saw it like taking off my shoes before going into someones house.

]]> by: RBH http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-201 Tue, 14 Feb 2006 08:04:31 +0000 http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-201 By the way, on wearing the head gear, I'm an atheist but I regarded wearing it as a courtesy to my hosts, not a religious statement. Simple courtesy doesn't hurt at all, as far as I'm concerned, when one is a guest in someone else's space as we were. Recall that the National Council of Jewish Women--Columbus Section was a co-sponsor of the event and it was held in the sanctuary of the synagogue. So, as I say, I regarded wearing it as simple courtesy to my hosts. (And they brought brownies! (chuckle)) RBH By the way, on wearing the head gear, I’m an atheist but I regarded wearing it as a courtesy to my hosts, not a religious statement. Simple courtesy doesn’t hurt at all, as far as I’m concerned, when one is a guest in someone else’s space as we were. Recall that the National Council of Jewish Women–Columbus Section was a co-sponsor of the event and it was held in the sanctuary of the synagogue. So, as I say, I regarded wearing it as simple courtesy to my hosts.

(And they brought brownies! (chuckle))

RBH

]]> by: RBH http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-200 Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:55:31 +0000 http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-200 Thanks for the report, Cassandra. I recorded the audio of the whole thing, but what with having to fool with the telephone and microphone for Rothschild's talk I couldn't keep track of the recorder and it got bumped around a fair amount. I'm going to try to clean up the digital recording some and post a link later this week, if I can figure out my voice editing software. I'll also try to get Rothschild's powerpoints up on the Web. It won't be for a few days -- tomorrow I'm at the Board meeting all day along with the Citizens for Science people and other folks. Keep your fingers, toes, eyes, and other appendages crossed! The couple you wrote of are fundamentalist Christians. She had a sheaf of old newspaper clippings she wanted to read when she was supposedly asking a question of Rothschild, which is why I cut her off some. I'm sorry you had to leave early -- we had a birthday cake, appropriately decorated, for Charles Darwin's birthday at the reception. And brownies! Woohoo! Again, thanks for the summary here and for linking it from Panda's Thumb -- <a href="http://tinyurl.com/cb3m7" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/cb3m7</a> -- because the more of us there are, the better we can fight this stuff. (And you're right: I don't care if my plumber is an atheist or an evangelical: I just want the pipes fixed! LOL!) RBH Thanks for the report, Cassandra. I recorded the audio of the whole thing, but what with having to fool with the telephone and microphone for Rothschild’s talk I couldn’t keep track of the recorder and it got bumped around a fair amount. I’m going to try to clean up the digital recording some and post a link later this week, if I can figure out my voice editing software. I’ll also try to get Rothschild’s powerpoints up on the Web. It won’t be for a few days — tomorrow I’m at the Board meeting all day along with the Citizens for Science people and other folks. Keep your fingers, toes, eyes, and other appendages crossed!

The couple you wrote of are fundamentalist Christians. She had a sheaf of old newspaper clippings she wanted to read when she was supposedly asking a question of Rothschild, which is why I cut her off some.

I’m sorry you had to leave early — we had a birthday cake, appropriately decorated, for Charles Darwin’s birthday at the reception. And brownies! Woohoo!

Again, thanks for the summary here and for linking it from Panda’s Thumb — http://tinyurl.com/cb3m7 — because the more of us there are, the better we can fight this stuff.

(And you’re right: I don’t care if my plumber is an atheist or an evangelical: I just want the pipes fixed! LOL!)

RBH

]]> by: Cassandra http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-199 Tue, 14 Feb 2006 02:10:13 +0000 http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-199 Dan said: <i>Oh?? So, if I had attended, would I have been required to don one of these??? I think I would have had a big problem with this!</i> It's funny you say that. There was a couple sitting in right in front of me. The man didn't have a yamika on. Suddenly a woman came up to him with a bag of brand new, silky yamikas (black and purple) and gave one to him. Well, he put it in his lap. A few minutes later, another woman approached him, handed one to him and said, "Men need to cover their head." He then told her no, that it's agaist his beliefs. She said something to him but I'm not sure what it was. I *think* that she told him that he needed to leave because he stood up and quickly walked out. Well, his wife (I'm assuming it was his wife) got up and followed him but looked a bit annoyed. About a minute later they both came back in, he still looked irritated, and they sat down. He didn't ever put a yamika on. I noticed 3 other men without thier heads covered too. Dan said: Oh?? So, if I had attended, would I have been required to don one of these??? I think I would have had a big problem with this!

It’s funny you say that. There was a couple sitting in right in front of me. The man didn’t have a yamika on. Suddenly a woman came up to him with a bag of brand new, silky yamikas (black and purple) and gave one to him. Well, he put it in his lap. A few minutes later, another woman approached him, handed one to him and said, “Men need to cover their head.” He then told her no, that it’s agaist his beliefs. She said something to him but I’m not sure what it was. I *think* that she told him that he needed to leave because he stood up and quickly walked out. Well, his wife (I’m assuming it was his wife) got up and followed him but looked a bit annoyed.
About a minute later they both came back in, he still looked irritated, and they sat down. He didn’t ever put a yamika on. I noticed 3 other men without thier heads covered too.

]]> by: Dan http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-198 Mon, 13 Feb 2006 21:09:50 +0000 http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-198 Many thanks for posting all this infomration for those of us who weren't able to attend! "Yamikas were provided at the door for the men." Oh?? So, if I had attended, would I have been required to don one of these??? I think I would have had a big problem with this! Many thanks for posting all this infomration for those of us who weren’t able to attend!

“Yamikas were provided at the door for the men.”

Oh?? So, if I had attended, would I have been required to don one of these??? I think I would have had a big problem with this!

]]> by: Roger http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-197 Mon, 13 Feb 2006 04:53:31 +0000 http://www.theatheistmama.com/2006/02/an-inside-look-at-the-dover-in.html#comment-197 See this site for more information about <a href="http://israel.lighthive.com/" rel="nofollow">Israel</a>. See this site for more information about Israel.

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